Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

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vleeuwen
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Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von vleeuwen » 01 Nov 2010, 15:36

The site of Regis (hiticlo :old forum) http://www.rchabassier.fr/spip/index.php brought me to the next suggestion to fischertenik:

Some software companies are publishing there library documentation in the format of Wikipedia.
Such a structured solution to deal with comments and code examples to improve the documentation could also be very helpful for the users and for fischertechnik.
I propose to use a wikipedia like structure as on line manual for the FtLib, FtMScLib and RoboPro.
An entry for every item and organize with a relative browser function.
This opens the possibility that user can add translations in different languages but also that the can add comment, examples and experiences with this function or RoboPro element.
Users will also be able to propose improvements of descriptions.
TXT, nice to learn C/C++ programming basics
https://github.com/fischertechnik/txt_demo_c_online

Ad2
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von Ad2 » 01 Nov 2010, 15:44

Hi,

I support the idea of collecting knowledge in a wikipedia structure. A forum is better suited for discussion rather than sharing knowledge.

Ad

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Defiant
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von Defiant » 01 Nov 2010, 19:14

I'd agree with the wiki. WIkis also have a nice Discussion page.

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Dirk Fox
ft:pedia-Herausgeber
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von Dirk Fox » 01 Nov 2010, 20:48

Gute Idee!
Einen sehr einfachen (und günstigen) Weg, ein (im übrigen sehr Nutzer freundliches) Wiki aufzusetzen, bietet
Wikispaces.org. Dort habe ich (getrieben von einer ähnlichen Idee) vor ein paar Wochen das Wiki
http://fischertechnik.wikispaces.com/
aufgesetzt - aus Zeitmangel aber bisher weder der Community vorgeschlagen noch mit Inhalt gefüllt.
Sofern die Community ein solches Wiki für eine gute Idee hält und sich ein paar Mitstreiter finden, biete ich gerne an, dort einige Administratoren einzurichten und mit diesen das Know-How aus dem neuen Forum (und aus den Köpfen einiger Experten) regelmäßig in das Wiki zu übertragen.
Gruss, Dirk

sven
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von sven » 01 Nov 2010, 20:53

Hallo!

Die ftCommunity hat schon sehr lange ein eigenes Wiki!
Da kann jeder entsprechend Beiträge verfassen.

Gruß
Sven
Dieses Posting gibt ganz allein meine persönliche Meinung wieder!

heiko
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von heiko » 01 Nov 2010, 20:59

Hi,

There have been some hesitant attempts for a fischertechnik wiki. The result of this probably still exists for the FAQ or something on ftcommunity.de. But that dates from a time where the German internet was slowed down in its development by "Betreiberhaftung", essentially requiring that any content has to be approved by the site operator before publicizing it. That effectively made running a wiki in Germany like running the gauntlet, especially when the editing history is made public. As a result, the ftcommunity wiki is deliberately stiff, impractical and not as dynamical as a wiki should be.

Times have changed in 2009 when Betreiberhaftung was abolished. This is one of the reasons why we happily run the forum on this server. I might think there's even enough space for a mediawiki (or similar) installation. But first we'll have to see how we can integrate that into our site, e.g. not ending up with only bits and pieces.

Heiko

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Dirk Fox
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von Dirk Fox » 01 Nov 2010, 21:30

Hallo Sven,
sven hat geschrieben: Die ftCommunity hat schon sehr lange ein eigenes Wiki!
Da kann jeder entsprechend Beiträge verfassen.
stimmt - aber der Leistungsumfang bleibt (ganz anders als bei Bilderpool und Forum, dickes Lob!) schon ein wenig hinter dem eines "ausgewachsenen" Wikis zurück, daher habe ich die Seite eher als "FAQ" denn als Wiki gesehen. Aber vielleicht ist das ja mit vertretbarem Aufwand ausbaufähig? Jedenfalls wäre es vermutlich für viele Fans wertvoll, einige der Erfahrungen noch strukturierter und stärker untereinander verlinkt (Kategorien, Volltextsuche, strukturiertes Portal, ...) finden zu können.

Gruss, Dirk

vleeuwen
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von vleeuwen » 01 Nov 2010, 22:00

Thanks for all your fast contributions to this discussion subject.
I notice also that there were already some initiatives in the past. But also problems about the content and how to manage.

Based on that I will add some remarks:
The objective for this case is
-) FtLib documentation and experience
-)FtMScLib documentation and experience
-) RoboPro documentation and experience
Also including bug report and suggestions for improvement and development.
Multi language support (at least for the description)

These objectives ask for a good moderation and also for commitment/participation of fischertechnik self.
(fischertechnik has the final responsibility for the software and documentation and not the subcontractors like RPE, Knobloch and Msc. I mention this in a positive sense. We must not get involved in internal discussion about strategy and political driven choices. ).

This support web site need also a strong organization what must be visible in a good navigation between the subjects. (Not only absolute navigation, what is very often organized as a hierarchic structure but also relative navigation. A good organized knowledge base. Maybe a tool like Protege2000 could be useful to have more grips on the organization of the knowledge base.)

So my advice would be to start with a dedicate structure and not with an empty naked piece of software or at least separate the discussion about the structure (Meta level) from the discussions about the context.
This all to avoid proliferation {quotation of Heiko: e.g. not ending up with only bits and pieces}
TXT, nice to learn C/C++ programming basics
https://github.com/fischertechnik/txt_demo_c_online

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hiticlo
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von hiticlo » 04 Nov 2010, 22:05

Hello

I think also it's a good Idea to centralize information from the several source.
For the technical solution, for my site I use Spip (CMS system http://www.spip.net/) because it is simple to instal and there is lot of plugin to add functionality and lot lot of skins.

There is the public site and a private site with several level (redactor and administrator)
redactor can write article and publish them
administrator can validate article at posteriori.

it's possible to create forum by article( readers can react about an article )or global forum.
you can handle différent language for an article. (If some one want to traduce article from my site in an other language they can contact me).

For my site I use the standard skin but someone purpose best navigation.

An important think is the language of the site. I thinks it would be better if english is the base language (for user that can't read German :mrgreen: )

Bye

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schnaggels
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von schnaggels » 05 Nov 2010, 10:53

Good point, I think for the high level topics the contributors have no issue with writing in English.
But to use English in general for a German ft wiki is not a good idea in my opinion...

Thomas

heiko
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von heiko » 05 Nov 2010, 12:05

Hi,

we are definitely going to integrate a 'real' wiki into our site -- at some point. It depends on whether we have enough contributors. So please water our mouths about what you could just do with it, and it will happen. ;-)

The integration of the different modules is key. I am not sure about what would be the best way to do this, however. I already mentioned single sign-on (which probably isn't worth the effort), but easy integration of images into forum and wiki and easy transfer of texts from forum to the wiki would be great ... actually I would really like to discuss this. I am still looking for a simple solution.

On the other hand, I agree with vleeuwen that this is not the right place for documentation on fischertechnik's products. This should really be authorized by fischerwerke. As always -- if you like to work for free, make sure that infrastructure is provided and your work is welcome.

Heiko

vleeuwen
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von vleeuwen » 05 Nov 2010, 15:01

Hi all,
First of all:
-) I am talking about the Computing part.
-) I am not saying that everything must be in the English language, certainly not.

Languages:
I am talking about the documentation of software.
So the structure and subjects are fixed.
Behind a subject (for the content) you can work with more languages. But the organization of the content must be the same.
This can be managed with for example the language property of XHTML.

The use of fischertechnik is growing in not German speaking countries.
( http://www.studica.com) Studica (Fischertechnik representative in the USA) is aiming on a more professional/educational market.
So I am expecting that there will be a need for discussion in English about computing related subjects.
There is a risk in case you don't offer this international FT community a platform to exchange knowledge integrated in the existing one, that they start another platform.

The computing world is English oriented, you could fight it, but what will be the change of winning this battle?
For me, integration would be a better approach. There are always people how make translations, and it will help you to learn simple international English. Diagrams and pictures can be very helpful in inter language communication.

Because of this internationalization, It is time for the FT-Community to make a fundamental choice, to be an international community or a German community.
TXT, nice to learn C/C++ programming basics
https://github.com/fischertechnik/txt_demo_c_online

DerMitDenBitsTanzt
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Re: Idea to organize ft-lib/RoboPro documentation

Beitrag von DerMitDenBitsTanzt » 06 Nov 2010, 19:50

Because of this internationalization, It is time for the FT-Community to make a fundamental choice, to be an international community or a German community.
Actually this decision has been made already a few years ago. We call it 'ft-community' not 'ft-Gemeinschaft' and the ft-Convention (not ft-Versammlung) is an event where exhibitors as well as visitors from several countries attend. And we provide proof every year that there is communication possible across language barriers.

Sure, it's always easier if you talk face to face and demonstrate things on a real model, but today we have services like Google Translator that deliver a rough translation which sounds horrible but makes some sense in most cases.

So we don't have to decide if we are an international community but how to deal with the challenges of a multilingual forum, wiki, picture pool, whatever.

-------------------
Wegen dieser Internationalisierung ist es Zeit für die ft-community eine grundsätzliche Entscheidung zu treffen, ob sie eine internationale oder eine deutsche Gemeinschaft sein will.
Eigentlich wurde diese Entscheidung schon vor einigen Jahren getroffen. Wir nennen es 'ft-community' und nicht 'ft-Gemeinschaft' und die ft-Convention (nicht ft-Versammlung) ist ein Ereignis, an dem Aussteller wie Besucher aus zahlreichen Ländern teilnehmen. Und wir beweisen jedes Jahr, dass eine Verständigung über Sprachbarrieren hinweg möglich ist.

Sicher, es ist immer einfacher wenn man von Angesicht zu Angesicht spricht und Dinge an einem realen Modell vorführen kann, aber es gibt heute Dienste wie Google Translator, die Rohübersetzungen liefern, die zwar scheußlich klingen aber meistens halbwegs verständlich sind.

Also müssen wir uns nicht entscheiden, ob wir eine internationale Gemeinschaft sein wollen, sondern wie wir mit den Herausforderungen eines mehrsprachigen Forums, Wikis, Bilderpools oder was auch immer umgehen.
Gruß, Frank

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