ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

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Ad2
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Ad2 » 21 Apr 2011, 14:45

How many people would benefit from a port to another OS? Only a small portion of the TXC users program (also) in C. A fraction of those will prefer another OS over windows (considering the windows market share). Most of these users will also have a windows computer or an emulator. I know that there is a port of the ftlib to linux. I'm sure something similar could be done for the ftmsclib. Maybe Defiant has some information about the usage of the linux libft. Next question is who should write the software? MSC? Ft? The users?
MSC is probably in the best position but is a commercial company. The best thing would be that MSC would publish the source code (cost them nothing), the users would port the software (cost MSC/Ft again nothing) and Ft could market their product as Linux compatible.
I don't know why Ft does not exploit the possibility of having the users work for you for free. By providing software the users are not in competition but rather add value to the Ft products. It would be interresting to hear why this would not be the case (ft please comment).
As an example of cooperative development, I would like to point to the mbed project. There, users write software (in the cloud) and publish it with the press of a button, other users can copy it and improve on it and publish it again. It is similar to, but more integrated than, the software section on the ftc. On MBED, also the compiler is in the cloud, so instead of installing yagarto and the libraries, you only need a browser. There are some technical issues but as a concept it works great.
In fact I'm trying to control the TXC from the MBED, it is not and never will be, a replica of the ftmsclib but I'm willing to share the knowledge I have so far to anyone who wants to make a port to another system.

Ad

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Defiant
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Defiant » 22 Apr 2011, 09:03

Many of the Universities already moved to Mindstorms because of the more ranged OS/Language support.
Ad2 hat geschrieben: Maybe Defiant has some information about the usage of the linux libft.
Its goal was to be API compatible with the Knobloch library.
"Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves."
E Hoffer

Ad2
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Ad2 » 26 Apr 2011, 15:11

Hi Defiant,

what I meant is: Do you know how often (by how many users) your library was used under Linux or OSX? This would give an indication of the demand for porting the ftmsclib.
Did you have special reasons to keep the lib compatible with the knoloch lib? Your lib was never intended to work with RoboPro, was it?

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vleeuwen
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von vleeuwen » 26 Apr 2011, 15:25

Because of the big group of Windows users I guess that a native dotNet version of the FtMscLib needs to have a higher priority.

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Defiant
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Defiant » 26 Apr 2011, 18:51

vleeuwen hat geschrieben:I guess that a native dotNet version of the FtMscLib needs to have a higher priority.
I thought the whole stuff already runs unter Windows, what more do you need?
vleeuwen hat geschrieben:Because of the big group of Windows users(...)
And yeah, right. Because by now probably all potential Customers went to Lego anyway...
Ad2 hat geschrieben: what I meant is: Do you know how often (by how many users) your library was used under Linux or OSX? This would give an indication of the demand for porting the ftmsclib.
No special counting, sorry. I just checked the webserver log which tells me something between 1-7/week. But please don't quote me on that.
A handful of people gave feedback. Most probably doesn't know that it exist or are using ftApi instead.

Also I had to tell one teacher whose school switched to Linux that my library doesn't support the Knobloch Education line.
So fischertechnik might have lost a full school as customer there.
Ad2 hat geschrieben: Did you have special reasons to keep the lib compatible with the knoloch lib? Your lib was never intended to work with RoboPro, was it?
I thought this will make it easier to port programs from windows.
"Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves."
E Hoffer

Ad2
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Ad2 » 26 Apr 2011, 23:26

Thanks Defiant,

I think that vLeeuwen means is, that there is no .net library for the RI/TXC but only native "C". To interface with the popular .net languages as VB and C# you need to build a wrapper around the native DLL. This is do-able but an extra layer, efficiency etc. The alternative is to provide a .net API that directly calls e.g. USB functions. For the TXC this should not be so difficult because all communication takes place over a virtual comport and .net supports this. Have you ever considered Mono?

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vleeuwen
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von vleeuwen » 27 Apr 2011, 09:19

@Ad
Thanks Ad.

@Defiant
Since more than 20 years I hear this arguments about the Linux OS versions.
Still Linux is not able to create a way to be compatible with I/O drivers.

The dotNet framework is standarised by ECMA (the same for C#) and is in fact independable of the underlaying OS.
Because the basic data types are not part of the language anymore, they are part of dotNet framework, it is easy to combine module (assemblies) which are writen in different languages (dialects). There are more than 25 dialects available for dotNet. The dotNet framework and C# is not owned by Microsoft!
Mono is a Unix implementation of the dotNet framework.
Betweem the C-lib and the dotNet managed Library exist a fundamental difference.

Your reference to LEGO is not clear to me.

Some time people have reason to switch betweem OS.
Maybe the use of a dual boot system could be helpfull for that teacher.
Very common in educational settings.

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Defiant
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Defiant » 27 Apr 2011, 17:37

a) When developping a driver you usually write it in the basic language available which is C most of the time.
Using this C driver you can then access is from almost any other language. C++, Python, Java, Matlab etc..you name it.
They all can access a C library.
Still you havn't told me what a library written in .Net can do better (Anything other then beeing slower)

b) If I recall correctly, not all of .Net is "standarized".
Also you never tried Mono, did you?

c) In opposite to ft, the Lego Mindstorm plattform is supported by many OS/Languages. So as a Linux/Unix/OS X user between ft & Lego the latter is more likely to get choosen.

d) They probably use Linux to avoid paying the Windows tax, so not much point in dual booting since it doesn't solve any problem.

Still, the original question here is unanswered. I wonder what the ft Emissary will answer.
"Propaganda does not deceive people; it merely helps them to deceive themselves."
E Hoffer

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Dirk Haizmann ft
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Dirk Haizmann ft » 28 Apr 2011, 08:52

Bonjour rei_vilo,

to answer your question.

At the moment we are NOT working on a lib-version for other OS.

ft

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Dirk Haizmann ft
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Re: ft MSC library for Linux and Mac OS X?

Beitrag von Dirk Haizmann ft » 03 Mai 2011, 09:53

Your welcome.

ft

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