Failure ore new variant

[Sweany]

Hi dear ft

Found in my new box is this a new variant ore just a failure.


And this was allready asked earlier, why is the old basic form from 30 yrears ago back in the boxes, without the extra holes.

In some models this old mold variant is useless, i also mark this part as an old production variant because it is classic red and not newred as all the other parts, this color is also not made after 1986.
Is it therfore so that there is cadmium in this part, forbidden in 1990?


Thanks Marchel

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

Hello Marchel,

to answer your questions...

> pneumatic cylinder
Failure! This part is in fact a failure... but it must be a older one. Today it's not possible to weld the part wrong.

> roller bearing
??? The roller bearing HAD (20 years ago) two more wholes... but we are using the new variant since in several sets (e.g. Universal 2+3...).

ft

[Sweany]

Hello Marchel,


> roller bearing
??? The roller bearing HAD (20 years ago) two more wholes... but we are using the new variant since in several sets (e.g. Universal 2+3...).

ft

This is the basic form so as it was designed in 1975 what has happened to the new variant whit the extra holes introduced arround 1985, this variant whitout the holes is only from last year.
And useless in several models, you need the holes to lock the part.
So the question was why is the old variant used in the new boxes after 40 years.
I know i'm cirtical about parts but i did invest over 2500Euro in new ft the last 2 years and expect top parts for that money.
And whit the color issues of red but also green, the new green parts are darker then the first, about 5 to 10% of the parts are B shoice for me and a lott of other ft builders and collectors.

Also the pneumatic cilinder was in a box from last year.

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

Hello Sweany.

as I know we changed the part in the late 80th (1985 could be). We reduced the wholes to improve the stability.
Since then, we are using the current shape.

I can't say if there was an older variant in the 70th.

ft

[Sweany]

Sorry nop.
The shape so as it is now without the extra holes is new in 2015 and the early basic old form from the 70's, not procuced from arround 1985 till 2015.
The ussual form with the extra holes made from arround 1985 till 2015 is needed for the computing models to lock the part, that is also made in classicred/ darkred/ brownred/ newred and a lott of miscolors and orange.
So it seems you did take the wrong mold to produce this part, and then the next question is when will the right part again in the boxes with the extra holes.

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

??? In which new box did you find the part ???

ft

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

@Sweany
To solve your "problem" I'd like to know in which box (produced e.g. between 2000 and 2015) was the "part with wholes"?

Thanks

ft

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

.. I'm still waiting.

ft

[Sweany]

Sorry did had very little time the past few weeks working to a deadline.

No the point is not in which boxes it was in, the point is why is the old mold in use again,
It is not my problem, i have of the first version whitout the extra holes
121 Classic Red
2 in Black

From the version whit the extra holes i have,
81 Classic Red
18 Really Newred
40 Darkred
3 Brownred
1 Orange
And 365 in a color between Classic Red and Newred
And did trow away about 250 in miscolor some where complete shinning true.

So it is not so my problem the question is just why is the old form in use again after almost 35 years, that was my question.

To lett it see in the instruction books
in the 50/1 box from 1975 book number 39110 http://docs.fischertechnikclub.nl/basis/39110.pdf box content and the part list without the extra holes (part in use from 1975 to 1981)
In the 50/1 box from 1978 book number 39027/39115 http://docs.fischertechnikclub.nl/basis/39027.pdf box content and the part list without the extra holes (part in use from 1975 to 1981)
in the Start box from 1982 book number 39032 http://docs.fischertechnikclub.nl/basis/39032.pdf box content and the part list with the extra holes (part in use from 1982 to 2015)

In the new instruction books the part was never changed to the new version in the part list there was Always the old form even if the new one with the extra holes was in the boxes.
Just look ad this book http://docs.fischertechnikclub.nl/computing/36069.pdf on page 131 in the part box on the top of the page there is the one without holes but in the model with the extra holes.

Grts Marchel

[TiniTech]

Hi Marchel,

I've been following this thread for a while now - and I didn't quite get how you know that the piece with the old shape was produced just recently? From your last post I take that you have quite a big collection of parts which have a wide range of shades of red. Are you concluding from the colours of the parts that the "old" mold must be in use again? Wouldn't it be possible that in fact that the piece you identified as being a new one would be one from 30 years ago having been produced back then but having a different color than the other ones produced at the time?
Against this background I think it is an important information for fischertechnik to find out from which _current_ set you took the piece with the _old_ shape.

Slightly off topic, having read the last two posts, I also wanted to express my surprise about the tone by ft representatives in this forum. "I'm still waiting" sounds rather harsh to me and somewhat annoyed - something I would not expect in the context of customer relations. Why not write "We would very much like to help you. As pointed out in my last post, in order to identify the production site where the old mold may have been used we would need more information about the set." or something like that?

[Sweany]

Hi Tinitech

Yes i have about 150000 parts, that are almost all the boxes from 1966 till 2016 and a lott of extra parts, and that is a complete room with ft.
I have also 6 meter books and instructions, which are all in the Dutch ft librairy see the link below.

No i have bought many boxes new so you can see which version is in it, the misscolor ones are from the period the Universal 1 was on the market.
The old version was in all the new boxes i bought in 2015 the last box with the version with extra holes by me was the Pneuamtic 3, all other boxes did have the version without the extra holes.
I think ft only wants to know if there is a conflict with a model and will further take no action, and the reaction is a little bit the same as with the color questions.

The main reason i'm making a point of it is that if you download an instruction form our website and you only have boxes from the last 2 years you can't build some models because ft did not notice they did take the wrong mold out of the warehouse.

Grts Marchel

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

Hello Sweany,

most kits (or better manuals) you have listed are older then 20 years, and weren't produced in this millenium anymore.
A lot of the parts -used in these instructions- are no more in the current kits.

The only new box you wrote about is the Pneumtic 3. This article was first produced in 2012... with the part without
extra wholes. We check that again.

As TiniTech allready suspected I also believe that you mixed the parts.

Your guess, we had inadvertently used the old mold is simply impossible. When changing a part -for cost reasons- we
change the mold too. So there ist no "old mold".

Regards

ft

[Sweany]

If you keep believing you are right you also have to mail fischerfriendsman that he is wrong and a few others.

It makes no sense to continue this if you give the same reaction as with the many shades of red and also green today.
And it really comes down to that we should not complain but just take what is offered to us.
Maybe that's why Lego is the largest toy manufacturer in the world today.

Al starts with quality control and communication to the custumer.

[TiniTech]

Hi Sweany,

just for clarification as I can't match your elaborations with the shapes of the parts in my collection (as far as I can remember):

Many of the parts I have are from the time of the old 50/1 100/1 boxes and as far as I recall they didn't have the extra holes. The "newer" parts I have are for example from the "Motor Master" (http://www.fischertechnik-museum.ch/mus ... m=52&pos=3) - which apparently is from 1991 and as pictured in the manual don't have the extra holes either. And in the really new boxes such as the TX PneuVac, the parts also don't have extra holes for sure.

So to me it looks as if there was a time "in between" when the parts had extra holes and this intermediary variant was abolished again.

Therefore my (uneducated) answer to your initial question would have been: "No, the red part is not a new variant, it existed for some limited time after 1981 (only)" - and with some insight to the ft-comapny archives (which as a regular user I don't have) I also would have told you when it was abolished and why. I'm convinced that was quite a while before 2015.

From an outside perspective, I can't imagine that something compex as a casting mould would be exchanged accidentialy without anyone noticing. (This certainly is different for the materials used for casting, therefore I, too, would have hoped for some more detailed insight on the colour issue, but thats something different)


And for my personal education: What is that hole good for anyways? I understand you can slide a "Verbindungsstück 15" (31060) in there, for example, to lock it and hinder it from moving out sideways. On the other hand, the hole there weakens the part so I can well understand that it was removed (again).
You referred to models that can't be built without the hole - which ones? On a quick search I didn't find any but I'm always keen to find out new applications for the parts.

[H.A.R.R.Y.]

Hello,

my parts Rollenlager are sorted by their shape - with and without holes. I am pretty sure that in the Universal II (93290) as well as in the Power Bulldozer (505280) these parts have had these very versatile extra holes! So we can track their availability back to 2008 / 2009 or even 2011.

And for my personal education: What is that hole good for anyways? I understand you can slide a "Verbindungsstück 15" (31060) in there, for example, to lock it and hinder it from moving out sideways.

The two extra holes come in handy everywhere you want to fix one or two metal-axles to constructions. For example a Grundbaustein (e.g. 31003) takes 2 metal axles into two of its long side grooves. To avoid the axles falling out I take a Verbinder 15 (31060) and apply it to the short grove of the Grundbaustein. One of the parts under question Rollenlager (37636) WITH extra holes then I assemble to the Verbinder and slide in the metal axles through the extra holes back into the Grundbaustein grooves. Fixing is done with one or two Klemmbuchse 5 (37679) on each metal axle directly clipping it into the Rollenlager section of the axle. The side of the Rollenlager with the notch (? => Zapfen!) then is opposite the Grundbaustein. Please take a look on the picture: https://www.ftcommunity.de/details.php?image_id=39529. The purpose here is to privide a sliding support to the Baustein 15 Loch (32064 - the red one). There is no such assemly using the Rollenlager but you already get an idea how the axles are oriented. Probably the same way as with the older computing kits - I do not know them really.

On the other hand, the hole there weakens the part so I can well understand that it was removed (again).

I fully agree. But normally there is not much stress on the part so that the extra holes do not cause severe problems.

I personally think that returning to the old shape without the extra holes just enables fischertechnik to use a simpler mold and molding process that saves on money and time.

The return to the old shape is not my favorite also but in case I need it there is the option to 'improve' the new-old shape by drilling the missing holes myself.

Regards
H.A.R.R.Y.

[Dirk Haizmann ft]

Hello,

sorry H.A.R.R.Y. but in the Universal2 and the Power Bulldozers the "Rollenlager" already was in the current shape.

As you mentioned the wholes were used to lock the part with axes, "Verbindungsstücken" oder "Klemmbuchsen"...
and like you, I myself do not really miss this function. As writen, the reason to change the "Rollenlager" was to
improve the stabilty of the part and not to save time or money.

Regards

ft